I made a piston 

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 01/23/2018 at 20:11 • Filed to: None

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Hey, oppos with mechanical know-how, I made a piston with a stupid amount of supports.

I’m still new to CAD so this is quite basic.

its can take 15000 N of force without failing

If you wonder why it has space for three piston rings, its because my teacher said “The more piston rings the better”

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:19

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Complicate and add mass? That can’t be right.....

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:25

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It’s a cool thought exercise but it adds a lot of piston weight and places for heat to go for a benefit that’s going to be hard to realize. Nice drawing work though.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:25

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No tolerances on the part dimensions? Gonna have a tough time fitting those parts together in assembly lol.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch 01/23/2018 at 20:40

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Its our first drawing using Inventor. I´m guessing that it could be used for high compression engines.

The teacher originally used inches but I made my own model after class. Its meant to have a 100*75mm bore. His drawing also only had the dual supports inside the piston.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:40

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Only your first try and this is already far superior to the Detroit Pistons

Spanfeller is a twat > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/23/2018 at 20:41

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its my first drawing, lol.

I’m sure I’ll learn about the wonderful world of tolerances soon.

Spanfeller is a twat > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 20:42

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I guess that ideally the piston should be as light as it can be, but again its my first solo drawing.

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden 01/23/2018 at 20:46

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Well that’s flattering

As other oppos pointed out it lacks allowances and is heavier and more complicated than necesary. I suppose Detroit (Diesel?) pistons are just really bad then.

All my imaginary diesel needs are met by Cummings

barnie > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:48

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Where’s the data block?.. No, ya made a picture of something. Until ya make it and use it, it is just a picture. Make it and test it... Good try, son.

For Sweden > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:49

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These Detroit Pistons (in white)

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:50

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Absolutely, doing better than me at the drawing front. I don’t have the patience to do it, I blame that on my first technical drawing class who made us start with pen and paper. Had I started on a computer I think it would be different.

Spanfeller is a twat > barnie 01/23/2018 at 20:51

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You mean actually machine it?

Too much work for a millenial like myself. (joke)


Its a blueprint and a 3D file as of now.
I could 3d print it and see it in the flesh (plastic?)

I’d love to actually do it! But as a newbie, I must ask, what is a data block?

Spanfeller is a twat > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 20:53

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Thank you!


The issue here is that my teacher is quite tech savvy and the career coordinator is quite tech-evasive.

So I’ll have a mix of computer work and actual blueprint drawing.

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden 01/23/2018 at 20:54

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Oh... I don’t follow basketball so I’ll take your word for it.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:56

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Spoiler alert: it is not wonderful, when dealing with parts and their tolerances its absolutely trust but verify. This is especially true with things that “press fit.”

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 20:58

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Technical drawing wasn’t what pushed me from engineering to physics, it was the calculus and the terrible software we had to use at the time to do it. Mid 90s Mathematica sucked when compared to modern Matlab.

benjrblant > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 20:59

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Eeek. That’s a scary thought.

benjrblant > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:01

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Thicc.

Fortunately Inventor makes it easy peasy to go modify!

Spanfeller is a twat > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 21:02

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Oh, gawd

I take graphics with a bunch of industrial engineers (basically business majors) that still don’t know how to use the hole function.

So its gonna be a slow proccess

dogisbadob > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:02

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how much oil is this engine gonna burn that it needs three piston rings? :p

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:03

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Spanfeller is a twat > benjrblant 01/23/2018 at 21:03

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Indeed it is thicc as fuck. 

But then again, stress testing shows it can handle a ~15000N load without failing. Which I think is a lot?

barnie > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:04

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heh. kids these days! sheesh.

Good on ya to design this. It’s a good start. Keep tryin’n. Data Block is the thing in the lower right corner that describes what it is, revision, dates, who, what, when, where, dimensions sorta stuff. No worries. Now, get off my lawn!

Spanfeller is a twat > dogisbadob 01/23/2018 at 21:04

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He was a GM and Ford engineer back in the 80s and 90s

So you tell me...

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > benjrblant 01/23/2018 at 21:05

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According to my college transcript I am a terrible math student, but it helps me teach calculus based Physics as I know the exact feeling my students have when I have to introduce Calculus concepts and they stare at me like I have just done withcraft or something on the board.

Looking back at it was a combination of math profs that couldn’t relate it to what it might be used for and me not caring as I didn’t see an immediate use for it in my Physics courses.

Spanfeller is a twat > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 21:05

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yup, if fusion gets laggy in my (now dead) macbook pro, I don’t want to imagine how it was 25 years ago.

Spanfeller is a twat > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 01/23/2018 at 21:06

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Its got a 10cm bore, so unless that honda is seriusly modded, nope.

Spanfeller is a twat > barnie 01/23/2018 at 21:07

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Oh, I covered the data block because it showed some personal information that the internet needs not know.

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:11

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Pssh, I can probably get a drill bit that big from Home Depot!

benjrblant > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:12

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So it was probably in hopes that someone would get at least one of them installed correctly.

Spanfeller is a twat > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 01/23/2018 at 21:12

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Okay, I’ll sell him my drawings for 50 australian...um... Dollars?

Get ready for a Honda with 250psi of BOOST

Spanfeller is a twat > benjrblant 01/23/2018 at 21:14

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He claims f1 cars have up to seven rings.

I’m one of only two individuals with car knowledge and he’s not up to questioning, so we just draw away.

benjrblant > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:17

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(the joke was about american car manufacturing in the 80's and how bad it was)

Spanfeller is a twat > benjrblant 01/23/2018 at 21:18

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Oh, yeah... it probably sucked...

dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:20

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Since we’re apparently critiquing your design, my offering is that your supports are over determined. That is, you piston rod ostensibly connects in the middle, yet your pin presumably goes through all four supports. IIRC, you want to have two supports. Looking at actual diesel pistons would seem to indicate that you could expand the width of the rod connection, and move the supports out and join the four into two. E.g.

Not sure what year you are? I took my 3d modeling class first year, in which case you likely wouldn’t have taken whatever the ME equivalent is for structural analysis.

punkgoose17 > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:31

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This is much better than my first drawing. Good work. It gets much more interesting too.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:39

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I’ve seen pistons with similar designs. You’re doing just fine. I can’t think of any automotive pistons that use less than three rings either. Honestly this wouldn’t be out of place in an 80's domestic.

Spanfeller is a twat > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter 01/23/2018 at 21:39

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No, Im yet to go through actually calculating the maths on these.

Im seccond semester but I’m supposed to take this in 3rd.

I’m actually studying Mechatronical engineering but I don’t like computer code, so I’m chaning over to mechanical and electrical engineering (which aparently is different from Mechatronics?)

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/23/2018 at 21:40

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How many rings are you used to seeing in Mercs?

TorqueToYield > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:40

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Nice!

Now get it made and test it!

CAD models are the easy part....

Spanfeller is a twat > punkgoose17 01/23/2018 at 21:40

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Thank you!

It took me the better part of two hours. Its exhausting but I find myself continuing!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 21:45

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Two compression, the top two, and one oil, the bottom. But the oil ring is comprised of three separate rings itself. It’s actually a very universal setup.

Spanfeller is a twat > Phyrxes once again has a wagon! 01/23/2018 at 21:47

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

ARE YOU NOT ENTRETAINED NOW?

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/23/2018 at 21:50

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Nice!

I don’t know what to think, I guess that as machining becomes more precise seeing more piston rings or smaller tolerances (thus need for less rings) will be more common.

Spanfeller is a twat > TorqueToYield 01/23/2018 at 21:56

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I’ll probably 3d print it as a reminder that I’m new

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 22:33

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Best piston shot I have. M156.

Possibly. I don’t know. What uses less than three? Not counting lawnmowers and things like that.

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/23/2018 at 23:07

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If Kia kept the same design for the lambda 3.3 v6 from 2008, then my car only has two*

*: According to the internet and my untrained eye.

tromoly > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 23:19

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Former CAD 101 TA here, your dimension lines overlapping is making me twitch, otherwise nicely done. Just curious, why not model it like a real piston with thicker supports?

Also curious, how did you get the 15kN number?

Spanfeller is a twat > tromoly 01/23/2018 at 23:37

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because its quite thick (The chamber has 1CM to play with) and I tested it with high strength steel on a basic stress simulation on AutoDesk Inventor.

Mind you, 15kN was achieved with a .95 safety factor, it was closer to 14.7kN but I don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head. I know the piston would never be submitted to that load, its like having a car fall on you!

Having the four separate supports really cuts on deformation too, which I suppose its good, but I can see now that a stress test on that APR piston would probably result in a good score too.

We’ve only been taught the basic drawing functions (most complex feature has been revolve) and this piston was all me, a newbie. I guess that merging the supports into two would make it heavier but also more resistant and perhaps easier to machine.

tromoly > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 23:51

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Mind sharing pictures of your analysis? Pretty pictures are always fun.

Spanfeller is a twat > tromoly 01/23/2018 at 23:56

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I will once I have access to the architecture and design computer lab again, so... Thursday?

I only have the basic piston (the one the teacher is making us do measurement by measurement) in the engineering computer lab.

I went over to “arqdis” cus it was closer to my parking space and I was only fooling about, no real work.

oldmxer > Spanfeller is a twat 01/23/2018 at 23:59

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did you make the od “cammed” to allow for the uneven heat expansion? cant tell from the drawings, the area over the wrist pin bore is usually smaller, when you size the cylinder you mic the biggest size to set the clearance

Spanfeller is a twat > oldmxer 01/24/2018 at 00:07

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the combustion area has a 5mm extrusion in a very basic form so that there’s less compression leaks, it is not cammed I suppose.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/24/2018 at 00:13

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Sure looks like two to me. Seems like a bad idea. But then again, me and Asian cars never really saw eye to eye 

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/24/2018 at 00:22

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Well, I guess it depends on application. I’d be surprised if a twin turbo version used those.

I suppose AMGs have a higher compression rate than an NA Kia engine, thus more rings.

But I can’t blame you for having your loyalties!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/24/2018 at 10:51

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Compression ratios and turbos make sense. I’d be pretty curious to see if you’re right!

Off the top of my head, I think the M156 runs about 11:1. Just googled it, it’s 11.3:1. So yeah, probably a bit higher than a Kia.

Frankly it’s just a fact of my life that turned into a loyalty. I never liked working on Asian cars, it thought they made much sense  I can do it, but I’ll fumble about for a bit first.

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/24/2018 at 10:53

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My jeep runs 8.5 off the top of my head, so it probably has half a ring.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 01/24/2018 at 16:10

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Or just a rubber o-ring!

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 01/24/2018 at 18:55

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Yeah, you never know with FCA